NA VS TURBO

ECUs, intakes, turbos, fluids, transmissions, exhausts etc.
masabgt
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Post by masabgt » 07 Jul 2006, 10:21 pm

Neo wrote:My dream car wud be quad turbo or more...
My race car wud be twin turbo...
By the way! Mikeh! wht wud b difference between Twin Turbo n Quad Turbo :? ... when I read the definition of Quad... i didnt find any difference with Twin... how will u explain plz :idea:

thnx... tc... :wink:

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Jin
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Post by Jin » 07 Jul 2006, 10:35 pm

i guess quad turbo means 4 turbos!!!!
i m nt sure!!!
let neo reply!

Jin :o

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Neo
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Post by Neo » 08 Jul 2006, 12:38 am

Jin wrote:i guess quad turbo means 4 turbos!!!!
i m nt sure!!!
let neo reply!

Jin :o
Yes Jin,
quad means four...
Simple logic..
as far as i know ,the only production car that employs quad turbo is bugatti..
Which means indirectly i was saying i wanna have a bugatti..
lol

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Jin
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Post by Jin » 08 Jul 2006, 1:11 am

therez also a V12 quad turbo skyline bt
then nt street legal!!!!

Jin :D

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Post by Sparky » 08 Jul 2006, 1:55 am

mikeh wrote:
Sparky wrote:it actualy shot flames through its ar$e.
I do the same when I eat chili chicken tikka :)

off topic again..

Image
:lol: you %#%$.... that's one lifechanging detail that i needed to know. :P

ps love that pic. :D

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Post by ovais » 18 Jul 2006, 7:58 am

Okay just to let evrybody know im new to the forums... and im only 16 years old....
I believe it is best to have a high output and well tuned NA engine because turbos or SC's cause complication. Personally ive dnt no much about SCer's bt with a turbo ther come many additonaly costs and worries.
To fit a high psi or high boost turbo u need to have a well tuned ECU wether it is a piggy bak or aftermarket , the high boost also requires you to have a very strong head (head gasket) cuz its gonna go through alot of harassment from the highly compressed air. Besides that you will need to a blow off valve (ill admit they sound cool), and a boost controller cuz i mean u dnt wnt to roll up to moms place with 30psi rollin under ur hood.
And if you are thinkin of fittin a high psi turbo ur gonna hve to think about fitting some bigger feul injectors to fuel the beast of an engine u hve.
Ok now i gonna suggest how u can get 400bhp+ without putting a turbo or a supercharger. Ok besides putting a new intake, and some new headers, freeflow, and exhaust. What you should do is work on ur stock block. Working on the engine block is hard, bt whn done by a proffesional can get massive results. Ok first thing prepare the engine for the exhaust system cuz if ur exhaust valve isnt large enuf 2 get rid of the extra air ur intakes suckn in ur headers will just be useless. So you should get bigger valves and 2 make the best use of these new bigger valves you need to get ur exhuast sleeves inlarged. Then now ur engine can breathe better, you should plan to get more fuel in with some biggers injectors and new fuel rail. Same deal with the exhuast valves u need bigger intake valves as well to let the max. amount of fuel and air in, and ofcourse get larger intake sleeves. To make the most of the new bigger valves get a performace cam with larger shaft laobs to let valve be open just that bit longer to let more fuel and air in and more exhaust gasses out. O yah ull need thicker fuel lines and more powerfull fuel pump.
I would go on but i think this post is alrdy to long

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Post by mikeh » 18 Jul 2006, 11:28 am

Ovais,

You have pretty good car knowledge, yet getting much out of NA engines is difficult (as I’m sure you know of). Let’s say a 2 liter engine, I think you’d have pretty good numbers if you reach 100hp/l. A list would be (I guess):

- intake
- headers
- exhaust
- ported heads
- stroke / bore
- pulleys
- bigger injectors (and fuel pump, fuel lines, …)
- ECU
- cam shafts
- cam gears

And gotta admit it, the cheapest hp/dollar is boost or nitrous :)

Nice to have you on the boards man.

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Neo
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Post by Neo » 18 Jul 2006, 11:54 am

Agree wit mike on both the facts...
U got so knowledge...
And Cheapest bang for buck is TC or Nitrous!

Commin back to ur point...
If i stick wit NA I would definitely go Cylinder reboring and oversized pistons..
LIke reborin and 2.0L to 2.2L,
Well not all engines can be rebored due to their existing construction and limitations to the thickness of the wall and Water jacket etc...

But going your way... I still dont think u can the kind of power u get from a TC/Nitrous/Sc... Max u mite get 100Bhp, i believe even that figure is exagerrated!

Plus Having More lift for a Cam shaft doesnt do the work all the time... U will loose daily drivablilty... believe me.. Tats why there exists I-Vtecs, and VVTi's....
These technology, Modify the Valve timing and lift control according to the engine speed and throttle position all the time...

I wonder, is there any production car having 100Bhp/L tat doesnt have a VTEC or related technology under the hood...

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Post by ovais » 18 Jul 2006, 12:41 pm

Mike ur rite most block work won't get you much hp and 100bhp isnt the greatest increase, but installing a nitrous kit in an old car can be dangerous
not matter how strong the block is.
Im not quite sure bout prices bt isnt a normal 300hp capacity Gerrett turbo like 1,500dollars.
and a list for side parts required to run a turbo safely would b

- Blow off valve
- Turbo timer
- Inter-cooler
- Boost pressure regulator (boost controller)
- Custom Waste Gate
- And im not sure but don't the headers have to have an intake for the turbo to get the exhaust gases from

Oy ya and mike you missed a few things ill just add on

- Raise the Rev limit (Safely)
- Remove the Speed Limiter (Not sure thats legal....)
- High flow piston heads
- Lighter piston arms
- And bigger radiator to allow you the cool the engine better
(Cuz you raised the rev limit)

O yah i heard they finally put a limit on the decimals from car exhaust
if you know what that limit is can you tell me please

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Neo
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Post by Neo » 18 Jul 2006, 1:14 pm

O yah i heard they finally put a limit on the decimals from car exhaust
if you know what that limit is can you tell me please
U must be talkin about decibels...
I see many Exhausts claimin to be under 95db and its street legal.
Which must mean, 95db must be the upper limit!
(U.S Regulations)
Im not quite sure bout prices bt isnt a normal 300hp capacity Gerrett turbo like 1,500dollars
Right on the price, bare bone turbo is gonna cost u anywhere in between $800 - $2000... along wit the assorted parts u hav listed wud be a easy $4000. Same goes for SC Kit.
- And im not sure but don't the headers have to have an intake for the turbo to get the exhaust gases from
U need to modify the Intake and the exhaust headers...
Intake should be having larger diameter, having larger throttle body.
Since u wud definitely be having high air flow/ Cold air intake filter, the custom pipes are necessary all along.
And if u r going for an intercooler which is a must for hi-hp application, then u need custom pipes to connect the turbo outlet to the IC and back from IC to the Throttle body....

Exhaust manifold will require a make over too.. It has to be connected to the turbo.

Check the link below it mite help...
viewtopic.php?t=1975
- Raise the Rev limit (Safely)
- Remove the Speed Limiter (Not sure thats legal....)
- High flow piston heads
- Lighter piston arms
If any of these are to be done.. I would definitely plan on improvin the OIL circulation and cooling.

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Post by ovais » 18 Jul 2006, 4:00 pm

ya sory decibels...
but neo what do thinks cheaper the whole turbo kit
or the dis stuff
- intake
- headers
- exhaust
- ported heads
- stroke / bore
- pulleys
- bigger injectors (and fuel pump, fuel lines, …)
- ECU
- cam shafts
- cam gears
- Raise the Rev limit (Safely)
- Remove the Speed Limiter (Not sure thats legal....)
- High flow piston heads
- Lighter piston arms
- And bigger radiator to allow you the cool the engine better
(Cuz you raised the rev limit)

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Post by mikeh » 18 Jul 2006, 4:26 pm

ovais wrote:ya sory decibels...
but neo what do thinks cheaper the whole turbo kit
let's say there's a 4000 USD turbo kit (greddy kit for the rx8)

And I'll put real prices for stuff for an import car:

- AEM intake 200 USD
- DCSport headers 500 USD
- Borla exhaust 700 USD
- SFR pulley kit - 200 USD (right sparky?)
- cheap cams: 500 USD
- cams gears: 200 USD
- ECU (piggyback mafterburner m5) 250 USD
- Stroke/Bore kit (where there's this kit for 9000 USD, but there's also this one for 4000 USD)
- 440 CC injectors (took just a number) are 90USD each, so let's say 4*90 (360) for our 4 bangers.


I think you get the picture.. plus a turbo kit would probably still give you more...

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Neo
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Post by Neo » 18 Jul 2006, 5:55 pm

Hahaha Mike , good one!!!
Stroke, bore kit means tearing apart the engine and changing half of the things inside. More labour cost..

Yeah if ur running high boost, u still have to tear it open and change the important parts...

but by varying the boost you can always hav different power...



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