Turbo Kit (Newbies)

ECUs, intakes, turbos, fluids, transmissions, exhausts etc.
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Arnie
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Post by Arnie » 27 Mar 2007, 11:03 pm

repost....

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Last edited by Arnie on 27 Mar 2007, 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Arnie
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Post by Arnie » 27 Mar 2007, 11:05 pm

Hey guys....just wanted to get this thing clear...

this is about getting a custom turbo car passed...
yeah I know its been talked alot ...but I heard if a the car comes with a Stock turbo ...even if you upgrade the turbo of THAT car...it can still be passed...

BUT....if you ADD a turbo to a NA car...they wont pass it...is this true?!...

anyways...I had a Twin_turbo idea for my Dodge Intrepid...I even sketched it how the layout would be....
Image

The interesting thing about my 3.5L V6 engine is that its got 2 throttle bodies...1 on each manifold side...as you can see in the sketch its a True Duel system....you guys can correct me or suggest wether I could do a twin turbo or a single....or if this is a bad idea!! :D

am not looking for MIND BLOWING HPs....am looking to reach around 300 to 350hp.....this is what I heard in terms of how much boost this engine can take..and also this engine I got is got alot of torque in the low end(225lb/ft @ 2800RPM)....

another thing I wanted to know...if my exhaust systems is done in Fox...I can pass my car?!......and what If I do my Turbo setup in Sub-zero...will I get my car passed?!...

Thnx Alot
Arnold

Hosrom
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Post by Hosrom » 28 Mar 2007, 1:18 am

Turbo charger an NA should pass, how the heck does the tasjeel know the exact engine specs of a car?

You are completely missing the wastegates on you're system, without them, you will over boost and cause turbo surge and not be able to control boost pressure. The wastegates should be mouinted BEFORE the turbocharger, hence how it controls the exhaust flow to the turbochargers.

I never liked FOX (Skyline exhaust), they were REALLY pricey. They wanted Dhs 1,800 for a muffler and tip for my car. I can get a 4" exhaust system (from turbo downpipe to muffler + tipe) for that price including shipping from the USA.

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Post by Hosrom » 28 Mar 2007, 1:19 am

BTW, where is the MAF/AFM/MAP sensor?

How does the engine know how much air is entering the turbocharger?

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Arnie
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Post by Arnie » 28 Mar 2007, 2:21 pm

sry...I dint draw the wastegates...yeah of course it should have wastegates....I understand that they are the ones which limits boost or rather does not let the turbo overboost....

now regarding the sensors...I have no idea....thats where I thought you guys could help me out :)

..okay...so...what the hell is tasjeel looking at to pass the car ?!?!...
cause I have been hearing all kinds of things passing a turbo car...

since there is no bolt-on turbos for the intrepid....I thought I can get the piping done at sub-zero....but then there are other ppl saying that if I get it done there....tasjeel wont pass....

so...do you think I should get the setup done...then remove it before I pass the car?!>.....

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Post by Hosrom » 28 Mar 2007, 2:28 pm

Tasjeel does not know which cars are turbochargered, supercharged and normaly aspirated.

Don't worry about that, my car is turbocharged, it does not show unless from underneath where all the exhaust starts curving and plumbing here and there.

Do you have a picture of the engine in it's current state?

You have two throttle bodies, you should have two intake systems, im guessing MAF's since 95% of the US made cars use that sensor. The 5% remaining GM cars have MAP sensors, you will need one hell of a computer (ECU) to get things going right, with two sensors, it get's tricky (not complicated) but tricky, since there are two air inlet sensors, two air tempreature sensors and two throttle switch sensors...........not one of each in most cars.......

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Arnie
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Post by Arnie » 28 Mar 2007, 2:58 pm

I have a pic of the engine in top view.....if you want i can take a pic if the car underneath...that that will be later...these are old pics..being a little dirty ...:)...as you can see...there is only one air intake...and the engine is completly stock...I have seen many intrepid owners in canada who have put 2 air intakes(1 to each TB)......you can even see the 2 throttle bodies circled in blue

Image

Image

current specs are 214hp @ 5600RPM and 225ft/lb @ 2800rpm

now...the torque is pretty funny...there is ALOT OF Torque between 2000 and 4000 revs...but after that..you will feel a drop in the curve and theres is not alot of power in the high end...i feel if tuned right and if it continues along the same torque from the start it can generate at least 250 hp in the high end range....nways...thats NA am talking about

I think in the pic you can see if the sensors are there....hopefully...

and while turbo charging...i would want a good midrange....what the engine is lacking right now is the high range...

so let me know whats a suitable turbo setup I can do for this engine....

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Post by mikeh » 28 Mar 2007, 6:03 pm

Well, it's basically, if you're engine doesn't look too modified, and especially.. it's not loud.. then they won't cause much problems.

Plus also, I dont think that a true dual design without any X part in the middle is the best exhaust design. But anyhow.

Also, I don't know if it's wise to have it completely seperate. I would at least merge the TB's, or, even after the TB's.. from an exception point of view.

If one of the turbo's for some reason doesn't perform well.. then you will have 3 cylinders running in boost, and 3 in vacuum.. seems like trouble to me man..

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Post by Hosrom » 28 Mar 2007, 7:57 pm

I would not even consider having that car (or any car) turbocharged without knowing the exact system. Find out how the electronics works, which system can hack into the factory ecu, or replace it with an ECU. Still, the software and tuining side, it is a nightmare.

Now, having a twin turbo system , automatically means you will be adding 100+whp (125-175Bhp), since you cannot run over 10-1psi due to the high compression pistons, but two turbochargers running 5-6psi each, gives you much more efficiency than one large turbo running 12psi. However, the large turbo could hold boost to redline, make more power etc....

From my point of view, you are looking at Dhs 12,000+ if you are lucky in the electronics department to get things right.

Do you know what type of injectors you have there? are they low or high imp.? do you know they flow rate, do you know if they are batch fired, semi-sequential or full sequential?

How is the ignition system? is it distributor type, and if so how many? coil on pack?

Is it and automatic of manual?

Seriously, i did a search and looked around on you're car being turbo's,. Almost no info.............i am afraid to say is you are either better off getting another car that has a turbo from the factory (much easier and less headache) or a car where a turbo kit is already there.

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Arnie
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Post by Arnie » 28 Mar 2007, 9:52 pm

hmm...heres where I got my info from

http://www.dodgeintrepid.net/forums/sho ... hp?t=44795

and this is the guy who turbo'ed his trep...
http://www.dodgeintrepid.net/forums/sho ... hp?t=47429

although its a 3.3L single TB......

so you guys are saying it isnt worth it?!....hmmmm thought I could take up the challenge...I always wanted to do a custom Job and make it work...nways

so I guess i'll just change the air filter and exhaust system...

although there is a Jet-Chip ECU Available for my car just to let you know....

Thnx alot guys for your info...
Arnold

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Arnie
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Post by Arnie » 29 Mar 2007, 1:33 am

okay...I just found out some specs of my car regarding your the stuff you asked

[quote="Hosrom"]I would not even consider having that car (or any car) turbocharged without knowing the exact system. Find out how the electronics works, which system can hack into the factory ecu, or replace it with an ECU. Still, the software and tuining side, it is a nightmare.

Do you know what type of injectors you have there? are they low or high imp.? do you know they flow rate, do you know if they are batch fired, semi-sequential or full sequential?

How is the ignition system? is it distributor type, and if so how many? coil on pack?

Is it and automatic of manual?
quote]

The injectors are Side-Fed...the imp is 12 ohms and the injector flow is 27 lb/hours

It has a sequential fuel injection system with distributorless ignition.

and its automatic...sadly...

I even found some tips on turbochargin my car...

"Larger injectors and piggyback/standalone (Electronic/Injector Pulse Width) - With this, you are basicly increasing the rate that the injectors open, based on boost. Now, to do this, you either need one of the more advanced piggy back systems, like the Greedy E-manage, or you need a standalone system. Whatever way you go, you need to upgrade the MAP sensor, or convert to a MAS. The stock MAP sensor will not see very much boost at all.

- Ignition Retard
Most LH engines (with the exception of the 3.3L) have knock sensors. They will automaticly retard ignition on the fly to some extent. But it will ignore it at WOT. If you run 91-93 octane, it isn't as much of an issue. I'm still trying to find a decent ignition retard system that will work on our cars. Reply if you have anything."


so what do you guys suggest?!...

I got somemore specs on my car if you wanna know....


Arnold

Hosrom
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Post by Hosrom » 29 Mar 2007, 1:01 pm

I don't mean to discourage you...........never did......but it is not as easy as it sounds.....

You just have a lot to learn in the electronics department before you even consider a turbo.

That site was exactly what you needed, since it explains the systems on the car (specifically you'res), as well as what to do in details.

So now, you have a choice, DO YOURE HOMEWORK and start digging up information and do things right (which takes a LOT of time). You can drop the project, or you can get another car and take it from there.

PS: There is no way a twin turbo system will give you an over all over 300-350Bhp. The smallest KKK turbo (K24) i have seen on a 1989 golf with a twin turbo set-up (1.8L 4 cylinders) pushed power from the factory 105Bhp to 268 at the wheels (340+Bhp) at 10psi........

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Arnie
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Post by Arnie » 29 Mar 2007, 1:26 pm

hmmm.....well...I dont mind if it isnt easy :)...just wanna get my hands dirty...(and I have the time)

well about the electronics department...I'll look into it alot more

its seem this engine can take max around 7psi of boost without modifing the internals....from a single turbo...

where as to get the same power from the twin turbos...it will be running at a lower boost and is more effiecient...(thats what I heard from the intrepid owners)am not talking about the big turbos where power comes at the end of the torque curve....they say a normal T3 will get you good Torque range...they also said I can go for a full T4 but most of the power comes at the high range only and its not streetable....

"PS: There is no way a twin turbo system will give you an over all over 300-350Bhp. The smallest KKK turbo (K24) i have seen on a 1989 golf with a twin turbo set-up (1.8L 4 cylinders) pushed power from the factory 105Bhp to 268 at the wheels (340+Bhp) at 10psi........"

well...I hope I can go more than this....first I have to START :D
they even said to start "slow"......and I can prolly get some help from sub-zero....

nways...Thnx alot Hosrom for the info....

you keep you posted if I managed to get things sorted out with this...

Arnold

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Post by mikeh » 29 Mar 2007, 7:28 pm

268 at the wheels (340+Bhp)
Losing 80 hp with the drivetrain and the transmission? Are you sure those numbers are correct? I would rather expect a 290 -> 268 drop..

Anyhow, Arnie.. it is basically possible, but you will need some cash to be dropped inthere.. and basically, i dont know if it's worth it. Your transmission I think can probably hold up quite some power.. you dont have clutches to burn :)

But think about custom piping, intercoolers, and indeed.. as said before, injectors. i dont know how much cc your current injectors are, but you will need pretty bigger ones.. my best guess 290 or 330 to say the least,

You can probably piggy back your current ECU and all, or have a seperate fuel management system.. I dont know how clever your ECU is. I guess a low boost system, indeed gives you a good streetable car.. but not the numbers that every UaeBooster like brag about. Anyhow, higher boost would result in a indeed low compression pistons, an upgraded fuel pump probably and beefier injectors

Maybe, if you have the budget, it's a good sleeper project.. though with two top mounted intercoolers.. you'd be noticed in tasjeel. :D

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Post by hossain » 30 Mar 2007, 6:23 pm

meemo wrote:turbocharged cars also face some problems when it comes to welding and piping some parts may fall apart.
i beleive turbo chaged cars does require more maintenance than the stock cars.....but super chargers can never beat turbo's even if there are some problems! if the job on the turbo is done at the right place and proper PSI is set, then the car can be unthouched for years until the lifetime of the turbo is over.....correct Psi is da most imp. part of all...
And bro welding is not problem at all....u can go to good workshop and get the work done perfectly...aluminium pipe bending machines are available throught out in da workshops in dubai and sharjah....nothing falls apart if the required time and money is given to the workshop working for ur car!!
thnx no hard feelings bro! take care...forget super-chargers!!



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