Turbo Kit (Newbies)

ECUs, intakes, turbos, fluids, transmissions, exhausts etc.
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mikeh
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Post by mikeh » 31 Mar 2007, 4:46 pm

hossain wrote:but super chargers can never beat turbo's even if there are some problems!
...forget super-chargers!!
Well, could you elaborate on beating? If you want to be a person who can claim that you have 400hp at 7000 RPM, then sure.. you have a very undrivable car, and need a oil change every minute.

A supercharger, epscially roots blowers, can give you a good power curve, and have pretty linear power, which makes the car great.

If you are talking about drag racing, yes.. you just drive straight, and shift when the lights go on..

If you talk about racing where the driver has to do more himself, than I don't know actually. You need lower-end power to pull away out of an corner... would you do that at 7000+ rpm's, dont think so...

I am not saying that sueprchargers are better than turbo's, but I would like to define "better". Both have advantages and disadvantages. But surely that turbo'd cars need more maintenance.

Hence, for Arnie, i would actually recommend a roots blower, it's more drivable, and less maintenance. So, he saves on $$$ as well.

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Post by Arnie » 01 Apr 2007, 12:41 pm

hey there....I heard ppl saying (ppl who call themselves anoraks ) superchagers dont like heat...so they dont work that well in UAE....
is this true?!....

unless you have a really good cooling system for the blower...

yeah...the superchargers do have instant power since its belt drivin from the engine....and there is no lag...

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Post by mikeh » 01 Apr 2007, 2:42 pm

Actually, it's not the SC or the Turbo that like or dislike heat (if we talk about normal car-related tempuratures).

A supercharger is connected to the crank, so it robs away some power... whereby turbo's use energy that is there already.

Now, turbo's heat up (wouldnt you be warm when somebody blows a 800 degree flame in your face ) more than superchargers. Superchargers run without too many problems, and without extensive maintenance.

If those anoraks ( ) say that superchargers don't work well in UAE.. explain to me the supercharged mini's, mustangs, ford GT's, m3's and range rovers?

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Post by Arnie » 01 Apr 2007, 2:50 pm

mikeh wrote:If those anoraks ( ) say that superchargers don't work well in UAE.. explain to me the supercharged mini's, mustangs, ford GT's, m3's and range rovers?
lol I thought as much....which is why I said "so called" anoraks

....nways...there are 2 types of s/c's right?!...

the one you mentioned are the root-type....what bout the certifugal blower?!...whats the difference other than the size?!....

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mikeh
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Post by mikeh » 01 Apr 2007, 2:53 pm

Arnie wrote:the one you mentioned are the root-type....what bout the certifugal blower?!...whats the difference other than the size?!....
Centrifugal blowers look like turbo's, but are belt driven.. they run through piping and intercoolers.. and you might lose some boost there. But still, not bad..

It's run often on s2000's (comptech I think) and Blitz made some for lexus cars now. HKS sells them pretty good for the 350Z... as we said.. no lag

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Post by hossain » 06 Apr 2007, 2:56 pm

Well, could you elaborate on beating? If you want to be a person who can claim that you have 400hp at 7000 RPM, then sure.. you have a very undrivable car, and need a oil change every minute.

A supercharger, epscially roots blowers, can give you a good power curve, and have pretty linear power, which makes the car great..[/quote]

It seems bro u r blindly in love with superchargers! i do agree tht supercharged cars need lesser maintenance than turbo charged carz! Agreed...
but i meant better in sense of power ...and u r sumwht right i did mean carz in drag races...but if u talk abt street race than turbo-chargerz are in no way lesser thn 400 hp at 7000! i have a gt-rb26 which gives around 500 hp at 7200 RPM! there you go! and i keep changing the oil every month and it is not at al undrive-able!u can control it wid one hand evn on the roundabouts of Ajman!..tht doesnt cost much in maintaining... but if u go to buy a supercharger or the roots blower u can buy another car instead of it!..it is damn expensive bro!... nd most of the mechanics throughout the country dont understand the system of superchargers! therefore maintenance is quite more expensive...
i do understand tht superchargers do give better power curve thts because of the lower power output and the high fuel intake! less efficient u c!
ther4 if u see in way of power and efficiency turbo-chargers are better than super-chrgrs...i do agree 100% wid u tht der are advantages and disadvantages .....but the disadvantages can be minimized in both sides by qualified and experienced technicians!(maybe YoU!)hehe..
allrite bro...take care.... no hard feelings! just too compassionate abt turbo's because i hav seen monsterz built wid turbos. Massalaamah!

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Post by mikeh » 07 Apr 2007, 1:21 am

Sure, turbo's have more maximum output. Don't forget that the "horsepower" aspect is the maximum output of your car.

It's the drivability, not on ajman roundabouts, but your power curve. A typical "big turbo" dyno looks like this:
Image

Where you can see that at lower engine speed (say, 3500 RPM), you hardly have anymore power than a natural aspirated engine. When boost kicks in (pretty late on bigger turbo's), all of the sudden, your cars get's this big ooomph.. It's a nice feeling, but if this oomph comes at 5500 HP, it means.. you still have a 4500 RPM place with barely any power at all.

Roots blowers are not expensive.. or at least not more expensive than turbo's (i am talking about genuine products mind you).

Don't get me wrong, I like turbo's as well, as they fool the system and make your 2 liter perform like a 4 liter and such. But I keep drivability in mind.

But indeed, if it's bragging rights, or a drag race you'r after, turbo is the way to go.

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Post by hossain » 12 Apr 2007, 4:57 pm

mikeh wrote:Sure, turbo's have more maximum output. Don't forget that the "horsepower" aspect is the maximum output of your car.
But indeed, if it's bragging rights, or a drag race you'r after, turbo is the way to go.
Yes bro........u r rite...actually i am more experienced with tc's rather than sc's..The maximum HP is achieveable by both tc's abd also ny sc's it depends on the engine you are using....Japanese,American or German....
can you plz lemme know where can i get the blowers cheaper than tb's...I wanna try one out on LS 430...
and i Mentioned Ajman round-abouts just because they are really small and high speed power cut is almost impossible on those by most of the undriveable motors u quoted be4....i just wanted you to understand tht not all turbo charchd motors are undriveable...as i mentioned be4 both tc's and sc's chrged cars require professional technicians..or both of them can result in undriveable motors...i totally agree with ur point on power-curves.... if a 2 litre engine can give an output of a non-turbo-chargd or superchargd engine 4 L engine dont u think turbo's are increasing the stock engine HP by double....I am not fooled it is common sense bro..
It seems tht you are really a safe driver..the safety shud alwayz be the major point..I like tht attitude of ur'z...I dont like people who actually build the engine to produce max. HP but the safety requirements are not fulfilled!
tht is if an engine can produce 450 HP at a boost of 3 bars..i wud rather let it be on 2 bar and enjoy wid lower HP..
Fun cannot be compromised with SAFETY..
And by the way most of the round-abouts in Ajman are getting replaced by bridges!!
it seems i hav 2 spend sum time researchin the new SC's in the market...
A'rite bro...take care..cheerz..[/quote]

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Post by mikeh » 12 Apr 2007, 8:03 pm

Blitz has twin screw root blowers for Lexus. I will check on it, what year is you LS man?

Safety is my number 1 point man. I lost friends in accidents because of people who tuned cars (or engines rather) and not the car's rigidness, handling, brakes.

Take care man,
m1ke

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Post by Hosrom » 17 Apr 2007, 4:23 pm

Ok, superchargers could "beat" turbochargers, and the smallest turbocharger in the market could "beat" the best supercharger in the market.

It all comes down to a little somthing called engine VE (volumetric efficiency), which is basically the efiiciency of air being introduced into the engine. Think of breathing.......

For example, you get two ford mustangs (example), both engines were modified exactly the same internally for better VE. If you hook up the right supercharger on one of them, and you install a "efficient" turbo (hence not made to spec for this engine), the supercharged car will out perform the turbocharged one all day on the STREET. When i say street, i say acceleration and pick-up. However, dyno numbers COULD be in favor of the turbo, since generally speaking, turbo's are more efficient.

However, as a rule of thumb, a properly made supercharged engine, will not, and cannot outperform a properly made turbo engine.

If we talk about bolt ons, you are mixing and matching different things, the outcome will be in favour of how lucky you are, unless you purchase a pre-made kit from a vendor (which includes EVERYTHING from software to hardware and everything in between).

There is an old saying, you can achieve 90% of the performance level by going and doing everything you'reself, however, it is that last 10% that makes the overall engine reliable. Hence why tuners sell kits that are not cheap, since they spent hours and hours testing (time = money), and you get something that lasts years (3+) not months.

There is one manufacture out there, that believe superchargers are the way to go since the 1930's, and that is Mercedes-Benze. Hence why the AMG cars are supercharged, which is all good, since their aim for sacrificing some performance for reliablity.

Now, Porsche have been turbocharging cars since the late 60's/Early 70's, which just destroyed all the competition in Lemans, GT1, GT2 and GT3 class races. Then in the 1980, BMW pushed the limits of their engineering, by introducing turbochargers in their F1 cars.

Mind you, F1 cars in the 1980's (specifically BMW's) were cast iron blocks, which ran in at 1.8L and single turbocharged, which pushed out a massive 1,100Bhp (those are what i like to call the golden days of motorsports, today it is all more marketing based).

Overall, superchargers vs turbochargers is an old debate that will never end. If you are the high power, speed killer type, then you are a turbocharged person, who also loves exhaust plumbing and whistling turbo's. If you like to keep it simple, have low end and mid range power and don't mind sacrificing top end and love whining engines for in town and some freeway driving, you are a supercharged guy.


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Post by Sparky » 26 Nov 2007, 1:08 am

Hosrom wrote:Ok, superchargers could "beat" turbochargers, and the smallest turbocharger in the market could "beat" the best supercharger in the market.

It all comes down to a little somthing called engine VE (volumetric efficiency), which is basically the efiiciency of air being introduced into the engine. Think of breathing.......

For example, you get two ford mustangs (example), both engines were modified exactly the same internally for better VE. If you hook up the right supercharger on one of them, and you install a "efficient" turbo (hence not made to spec for this engine), the supercharged car will out perform the turbocharged one all day on the STREET. When i say street, i say acceleration and pick-up. However, dyno numbers COULD be in favor of the turbo, since generally speaking, turbo's are more efficient.

However, as a rule of thumb, a properly made supercharged engine, will not, and cannot outperform a properly made turbo engine.

If we talk about bolt ons, you are mixing and matching different things, the outcome will be in favour of how lucky you are, unless you purchase a pre-made kit from a vendor (which includes EVERYTHING from software to hardware and everything in between).

There is an old saying, you can achieve 90% of the performance level by going and doing everything you'reself, however, it is that last 10% that makes the overall engine reliable. Hence why tuners sell kits that are not cheap, since they spent hours and hours testing (time = money), and you get something that lasts years (3+) not months.

There is one manufacture out there, that believe superchargers are the way to go since the 1930's, and that is Mercedes-Benze. Hence why the AMG cars are supercharged, which is all good, since their aim for sacrificing some performance for reliablity.

Now, Porsche have been turbocharging cars since the late 60's/Early 70's, which just destroyed all the competition in Lemans, GT1, GT2 and GT3 class races. Then in the 1980, BMW pushed the limits of their engineering, by introducing turbochargers in their F1 cars.

Mind you, F1 cars in the 1980's (specifically BMW's) were cast iron blocks, which ran in at 1.8L and single turbocharged, which pushed out a massive 1,100Bhp (those are what i like to call the golden days of motorsports, today it is all more marketing based).

Overall, superchargers vs turbochargers is an old debate that will never end. If you are the high power, speed killer type, then you are a turbocharged person, who also loves exhaust plumbing and whistling turbo's. If you like to keep it simple, have low end and mid range power and don't mind sacrificing top end and love whining engines for in town and some freeway driving, you are a supercharged guy.


That's a good write-up man; maybe you should help me install my supercharger when it gets here.
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Post by prossett » 19 Dec 2007, 1:52 pm

Here's a very simple, very brief introduction to turbo, with nice labelled diagram: http://www.turbotechnics.com/docs/turbo/turbowork.htm

And for you guys who hate to read, here's a video explaining turbo: http://videos.howstuffworks.com/howstuf ... -video.htm

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Post by LawCarvelli » 26 Jul 2008, 6:57 pm

This was a great post. learnt so much just from 4 pages in 1hour compared to two days of online research
yes it's a rag top, yes it's automatic.

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Post by UAEturbo » 30 Sep 2008, 11:25 pm

nice article. and for the person who, is asking about switching from SC setup to turbo. if its an 04 cobra ur best bet is to go twin screw sc setup just like the eaton u have stock on your 04 cobra, get an upgrade for ur supercharger kennebell 2.8h mammoth (bigger inlet and bigger hp gains) is ur best option and will hand turbo %#%$'s all day long with a good setup and tune. but if you really want turbo's then dont go single turbo setup. the reason is it have been proven again and again that v8's respond more with twin turbo then with a single setup, and oh yeah twin's will almost eleminate lag problem with a good tune. go twin turbo with t55's minimum, t55's would work upwards to 900hp. as far as your stock bottem end goes ur stock bottom end will hold upwards to 850 rwhp but will be very risky speciialy if you are in UAE, cause u will be tempted to race alot lol, u dont want to pop the pistons, rods out so 2000$ for a forged bottom end assembly will help do the work
WTS Chevy, ford, dodge, nissan, toyota - supercharger and turbo systems
twin turbo stage1, stage 2 and stage 3 options for all muscle cars (ford Chevy) all years models.

WTS Saleen body kit + Exhaust
WTS 2007, 2000 miles ford GT500 shelby cobra 110000 UAE DHS (need body work)

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Post by UAEturbo » 30 Sep 2008, 11:38 pm

one other thing i want to mention, lots people have asked me before whats the best turbo or a supercharger for my v8. from my experiance, If u have a v8 specially a mustang, twinscrew supercharger like kennebell is ur best option. cause of the lowend torqu and high power output + its a lot cheaper to maintain, i drive both a kennebell supercharged 03 cobra( this was TT before 2 months) and a twin turbo 07 mustang GT. and the rule of the thumb for me, is that kennebell owns all.
WTS Chevy, ford, dodge, nissan, toyota - supercharger and turbo systems
twin turbo stage1, stage 2 and stage 3 options for all muscle cars (ford Chevy) all years models.

WTS Saleen body kit + Exhaust
WTS 2007, 2000 miles ford GT500 shelby cobra 110000 UAE DHS (need body work)



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