Air Filters

ECUs, intakes, turbos, fluids, transmissions, exhausts etc.
Sparky
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Post by Sparky » 26 Nov 2007, 12:50 am

prossett wrote: And a really funky way is to suck air from a hood scoop. While that used to be excellent for carbs (yes, I'm showing my age! :) ) it's no longer popular.
Now that my friend is true ram-air. :D


usaf23, you're welcome man. I'll keep an eye open; though i recommend you ordering one overseas instead. Try to get it from an online shop in the philippines, because they have the same 1.3 litre mazda3 engine as we do here. Check out http://www.speedlab.com.ph/ if you ever plan on ordering, they have a contact page.

Remember, don't rush. Just do it right the fist time. i wasted so much cash in doing my intake because i did it three times, the third time being the right one since i ordered it specifically for my car.

Good luck!

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Tamu
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Post by Tamu » 26 Nov 2007, 1:04 am

i changed my intake 5times..i had 3short rams and 2 CAI....i tested every single 1..the cheap simota stuff...and the branded one..in the ending i liked the response of a short ram K&N intake...even though CAI would have been better...but i just got fed up of collecting intakes for my car :P ..loool

USAF why dont you just order it online??..i dont understand why you dont want to..dont worry if you order the CAI and dont get it bcoz the site was a scam you can get sparky to pay you back bcoz he provided you with the link!!! :P ..hahahahaha..just jokin..

seriously consider ordering it from the net...i no you dont wana wait and stuff...but like they say in my language "sabar ka phaal meeta hota hai" meaning "a fruit you wait for to ripe will always be sweet" ...ok that was lame..

good luck

Sparky
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Post by Sparky » 26 Nov 2007, 1:17 am

Tamu wrote:i changed my intake 5times..i had 3short rams and 2 CAI....i tested every single 1..the cheap simota stuff...and the branded one..in the ending i liked the response of a short ram K&N intake...even though CAI would have been better...but i just got fed up of collecting intakes for my car :P ..loool
I'm going for number four now, i'm planning on cutting my K&N CAI and converting it to a long SRI; i'm tired of not being able to reach the filter easily. I also miss the sound of an SRI, IMHO i think it sounds meaner.

But yes usaf23, don't be afraid to order from the net. 80% of my stuff is from the net. You gotta take a little risk. :D

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Tamu
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Post by Tamu » 26 Nov 2007, 8:04 am

ya order from the net...no pain no game.....or is it the other way around :P

the SRI sound much better then the CAI..but some ppl differ..i guess it just depends on the person...why are you cutting the CAI???...arent u getting the supercharger anytime soon??

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Post by SalV6 » 26 Nov 2007, 8:58 am

Tamu, is right the short ram, sounds deeper and louder, because the filter is basically right next to the TB, and the engine dosen't have to suck in harder, plus the shorter time it takes for clean air from the filter to go inside the intake manifold the better you are, the better and faster accel or response you get on the gas pedal, only disadvantage to SRI is that when the car gets hot, it breathes in hotter air, thats where the CAI comes in handy, i keep both SRI and CAI for my B13, when on a track during summer, if there is an event around 7am to lets say 11pm, i will run SRI from 7am till 12pm, then change the pipe to CAI for the afternoon, then as soon as its sunset, i put back on the SRI.

You might be thinking how is that possible without time and all, well i disconnect my CAI pipe from the TB.

I have about 30cm of pipe attached to the TB after that i just attach the cone filter for the SRI, and for CAI i remove the filter and just add the middle pipe and connect it back to the CAI from one side and to that extra short pipe from the TB.

its worth the effort, and once setup its sick your car always runs on the best air according to the situation.

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prossett
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Post by prossett » 26 Nov 2007, 3:40 pm

WoW! Switching air intakes based on the time of day is extreme cool, man!!! 8) Respect.

As they say, it's all in the detail...

The middle ground between SRI and CAI would be the short intake with a heat guard. Can work well on some engines. If you can identify where the fan blows onto the air filter, and rig up a half-box, or 3/4 box, that will block the direct hot air off the engine fan, then you have good flow and avoid the heat blast from the fan.

On an old truck I had I used a flat Corn Flakes box wrapped in aluminum foil to find the best position - at the end it worked a charm. Didn't feel any gains, of course, :D but the attention to detail that SalV6 is talking about was spot on! 8)

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Tamu
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Post by Tamu » 26 Nov 2007, 10:20 pm

your right prosset..iv seen alot of 4x4 owners that put foil or some sort of heat deflective material around the pipe to keep the pipe cold as possible....i think its a very smart thing to do and it wouldnt harm anyone if they try it on there cars...

i think the best thing to try would be that reflective sun shade that you use for the front window in front of the driver and passenger...and wrap it around the pipe securely..it should work well .....

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prossett
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Post by prossett » 26 Nov 2007, 11:50 pm

Buddy, you're onto something! That silver stuff would be perfect!! 8)

It's flexible, it's reflective and it's insulated - and it's super cheap!

Perhaps wrap the pipe in stuff to trap in some air as further insulation, like fibreglass or some sort of construction insulation fiber, then cover with the sun shield material, close both ends so the air doesn't circulate in the internal insulation, and you'll have good protection...

Good thinking! 8)

Now we have to figure out who wants their engine bay to look like pieces of the space shuttle! :D

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Tamu
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Post by Tamu » 27 Nov 2007, 1:17 am

loool @space shuttle...

i think there is actually a material in the market that most people use to decrease heat. correct me if i am wrong but iv seen some turbo'd cars wrapping a thin material (i dont no what the material is called or what its made off) around the turbo manifold..i am not sure if its for decreasing heat but iv seen it many pic's...

as for the reflective material around the pipe..i think it could help a tiny bit in performance...

theres something iv always been confused about....in a SRI the engine is breathing in hot air produced by the engine (upto 150degree's i think) ...most ppl would think a CAI would work more effeicently in the weather we get in the gulf..but if you think about it the road surface is really hot and so is the outside temperature...then you gotta consider the temp of the engine, bcoz the pipes get hot as well from the engine temp...so isnt the CAI a bit useless...

personally i found the SRI more effective..BUT i guess bcoz of the weather that we get over here the CAI and SRI wont be that much diffrent in providing power !!!...

this is just my opinion..but i think i got a valid point !!!

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prossett
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Post by prossett » 27 Nov 2007, 8:46 am

Absolutely you've got a valid point, IMO.

The thin silver tape I've seen was to wrap headers, but prolly same stuff for turbo. I actually didn't apply it because I felt it was too thin. If I remember correctly heat transfer can best be prevented when bubbles of air are trapped inside the insulating material; and that tape was just hoping to reflect light, as far as I could tell. I might have been wrong.

Your space shuttle windshield material is far better, I think! (Y)

As for the air being damme hotte wherever you get it from in the GCC - that's absolutely true! :D In fact, some time ago I was thinking about routing the air intake through the firewall and sucking from the air-conditioned cab!!! :|

It was in the context of a 4x4, so instead of the snorkel going up along the outside of the windshield, why not suck in that fresh cool air from inside??? I was thinking through the glove box...

In the end, after some thinking, it appears there are too many downsides... :( An engine sucks in many many litres of air per minute... apparently, the Bugatti Veyron sucks in 45,000 litres of air per minute... but that's 1000HP and a very special engine! 8)

http://www.howstuffworks.com/bugatti.htm

Image

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Post by SalV6 » 27 Nov 2007, 9:32 am

You guys are on the right track, but on the wrong part.

Insulating the pipe with reflective material, will worsen the short ram air further.
Because the hot air that you get in the short ram enters through the cone filter, so making the piping insulative, will keep that air heated.

If you put reflective material or insulate a CAI, there is no point, because it’s a CAI. hehehe its breathing in cold air from the outside anyways.

The aim is to get the cold air from the filter, that’s why many new intakes are starting to have some sort of cooling system at the tip of the cone filter, but those hardly make a huge difference.

I actually designed a short Air RAM intake, but didn't have the funds or time to manufacture it and become a millionaire. lol

its so simple, if you know how a Subaru sti had a hood air ram, you will notice, when you lift the hood, there is a intercooler sitting right there.

well I got an idea one day, same thing a air ram on a car, and under it is a sheet metal where the air enters and glides on into a spiral, and into the cone, the cone is fully covered by the sheet metal, and when the air enters the vent it pushes fans round and round, so the air is FORCED into the cone filter, then when the air enters the cone, there is a small pipe in there, that throws cold air in it, almost like cold ice, this module is connected to the AC, so its working as a daily device, when this are mixes, it is again spiralled in to the pipe, where it is forced into the TB at faster speed then the air entered and much colder temperature, giving a constant 100% hp gain, this system could be easily turned off by turning off the ac switch, and just running with the forced outside air temperature.

The average cold temperature produced was about 2 degrees to a maximum of -1, we are still working to get up to -10, because we have tested normal intakes in that cold weather, and its unbelievable, the amount of pull you get, omg you feel like you have a turbo on your car.

But intakes, are for fast acceleration response, better fuel economy (when driving normal) and easy hp gains, and that can all be achieved one way, by keeping the air as cold as possible, which going inside the engine, and if the engine stays cool, the longer it will last, and better it will perform.

You guys know this. When you start you car after one day, at night time, let it warm up for 1 minute, drive normal for 5 mins then punch that pedal, your car will fly, but eventually you will become way slower as you engine heats up.


But on the bright side, both you guys are right, and if you guys become more obsessive about it, you will probably end up designing some sort of forced cooling intake system, hehhe, and the funny thing is if you have the time and funds, in about two years you could become a millionaire just by this one product, specially in the gulf, where both SIR & CAI are victims of hot air, you guys almost get ripped off on that product, it should actually be a law that you guys should get intakes for cheaper as your cost vs hp is lower then people like us who live in colder countries.
Oh man I tried not to go technical even then with simple words I ended up with so much lol.

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Post by Tamu » 27 Nov 2007, 10:05 am

prossett wrote:In fact, some time ago I was thinking about routing the air intake through the firewall and sucking from the air-conditioned cab!!! :|

It was in the context of a 4x4, so instead of the snorkel going up along the outside of the windshield, why not suck in that fresh cool air from inside??? I was thinking through the glove box...
hahahhahahaha..that was hilarious buddy ..loool..to bad it wont work, hehehehe..i could just imagine some bedu's reading this topic and saying...shabash shoov shoov...hai harakat jadeed...loool and then u see every patrol and landcruiser with a intake in the middle of the dash..hahahhaha...
SalV6 wrote:Insulating the pipe with reflective material, will worsen the short ram air further.
Because the hot air that you get in the short ram enters through the cone filter, so making the piping insulative, will keep that air heated.
the point of the shinny material is not to insult the pipe, infact it isnt even insulating the pipe at all..its actually deflecting the heat away from the pipe...its effective if you think about it..and iv seen alot of ppl using the method!!!..i dont see where it is going wrong...bro its physics 101
SalV6 wrote:If you put reflective material or insulate a CAI, there is no point, because it’s a CAI. hehehe its breathing in cold air from the outside anyways.
not necessarily..like i mentioned earlier..u have to consider the outside weather in GCC during the day around 11-3pm..it gets frickin 40degree's sometimes + the humidity..and the road temperature..and the engine temp (150degree's) which makes the pipe frickin hot... (thats where the deflective material will help) .....so ya CAI dont work effectively everywhere..like sparky said sometimes he changes his intake depending on the time of the day to gain optimum temp!!...id rather suck in hot air from my SRI then suck in hot + humid air from outside...

its all kinda confusing i guess..but we all have valid points here!!

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Post by SalV6 » 27 Nov 2007, 10:44 am

yea your right about the CAI, thats why i later mentioned that you guys get screwed with SRI and CAI, because of your weather and that you should have lower prices for intakes just for that reason.

And when i was talking about the shinny stuff, i ment the insulation material you were talking about tamu, you guys siad youself INSULATING, which means to keep the temperature contained at the level it is for as long.....ENGLISH 101.lol

but if you ment the shinny REFLECTIVE foil stuff, thats useless, you might as well waist your time elsewhere.

WHERE under the hood is there bright sunlight hitting the intake, and you can't change your story now, because you just said above, that you were talking about the reflective shinny material.

the steel or aluminium piping of the CAI and SRI, is worse for you guys, you would save more money and power if you just bought filters and hooked them on the stock, plastic or rubber piping, those materials tend to take longer to heat up, and rubber can dispense heat a little bit, where as the aluminum or still piping i could imagine gets as hot as the engine valve cover for your GCC places.

So yea the steel piping woould be better for colder countries only.

And thats why its so common to find CARBON fibre intake kits, because they are much better than the steel piping.So you guys should buy those.

And the stuff you were talking that shinny material covering turbo's and turbo manifolds or header, is not to keep them cool,lol its to keep the hot air as hot as possible, to build turbo presure, the hotter the pressure in the turbine the faster the car boosts and HARDER. Chemistry 101. <<<<lol jks don't get mad.

You only need cold air for the the engine, if the engine works on cooler air it gets less stress and performes better and produces more hp and more powerful hotter gasses, from the turbo turbine. THE BOV you hear lets that same unused HOT pressured air out, when you let go off the gas pedal, this is the blackish smoke you see comming from the engine sometimes at drag strips and from the exhaust. thats why high boost turbo cars backfire flames, because they are on pressure so hot, that it escapes the exhaust, and even different coulour back fire means different things, i.e is it running rich, lean or stroich.

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prossett
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Post by prossett » 27 Nov 2007, 11:22 am

Tamu wrote:
prossett wrote:In fact, some time ago I was thinking about routing the air intake through the firewall and sucking from the air-conditioned cab!!! :|

It was in the context of a 4x4, so instead of the snorkel going up along the outside of the windshield, why not suck in that fresh cool air from inside??? I was thinking through the glove box...
hahahhahahaha..that was hilarious buddy ..loool..to bad it wont work, hehehehe..i could just imagine some bedu's reading this topic and saying...shabash shoov shoov...hai harakat jadeed...loool and then u see every patrol and landcruiser with a intake in the middle of the dash..hahahhaha...
ROFL!! :D and kids getting their heads sucked into the glove box...

"What happened to our son's hair, habibi?"
"Yani, he got his head sucked into the engine at Bidayer... but he'll be OK."

As for the technical discussion - awesome, good to hear all points because that's how we learn and further our knowledge!

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Post by SalV6 » 27 Nov 2007, 11:35 am

prossett wrote:
Tamu wrote:
prossett wrote:In fact, some time ago I was thinking about routing the air intake through the firewall and sucking from the air-conditioned cab!!! :|

It was in the context of a 4x4, so instead of the snorkel going up along the outside of the windshield, why not suck in that fresh cool air from inside??? I was thinking through the glove box...
hahahhahahaha..that was hilarious buddy ..loool..to bad it wont work, hehehehe..i could just imagine some bedu's reading this topic and saying...shabash shoov shoov...hai harakat jadeed...loool and then u see every patrol and landcruiser with a intake in the middle of the dash..hahahhaha...
ROFL!! :D and kids getting their heads sucked into the glove box...

"What happened to our son's hair, habibi?"
"Yani, he got his head sucked into the engine at Bidayer... but he'll be OK."

WOAHH!!!

damm is your son okay!!!

that is some dangerous stuff, i have never seen someone getting their head sucked into an engine, but yea if kids are around high boost cars, put a caution sign around, thank god he's okay.



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