Lowering in dubai
Moderator:Neo
can't find anything explain how alightment relate to the handing , but i can try to make a list to explain .
front toe in increase : reduce oversteer turn in / increase understeer turn in
front toe out increase : increase oversteer turn in / reduce understeer turn in
rear toe in increase : reduce oversteer turn out / increase understeer turn out
rear toe out increase : increase oversteer turn out/reduceundersteer turn out
front negative camber increase : reduce understeer /increase oversteer
rear negative camber increase : increase understeer /reduce oversteer
front toe in increase : reduce oversteer turn in / increase understeer turn in
front toe out increase : increase oversteer turn in / reduce understeer turn in
rear toe in increase : reduce oversteer turn out / increase understeer turn out
rear toe out increase : increase oversteer turn out/reduceundersteer turn out
front negative camber increase : reduce understeer /increase oversteer
rear negative camber increase : increase understeer /reduce oversteer
Last edited by kingkenny on 13 Jan 2008, 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
caster is something relate to the steering feel , more toward to the back the steering feel lighter and also tend to turn , also give you more negative camber while cornering(better traction on the front) , usually better cornering but also feel a bit less connection with the front tires , too much caster also cost you diffcult to control .
in the other hand , caster more toward to the front , will give you more steering feel , heavier steering , easier to feel the front tire , most drag car like to have their caster toward to front .
not finish yet , will come back for more real sample and detial !!
in the other hand , caster more toward to the front , will give you more steering feel , heavier steering , easier to feel the front tire , most drag car like to have their caster toward to front .
not finish yet , will come back for more real sample and detial !!
Last edited by kingkenny on 14 Jan 2008, 1:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
now let me share some of my experience when i set up my custom alightment .
first of all , to do this change and fine tune your suspension doesn't gain you a sec lap time directy , but sometime the right setting match the right driver will gain you more than a sec per lap . there isn't any 100% correct set up , it's depend on the driver , also depend on the course , like for stragiht line drag race , high speed circuit race or like me target on the low speed autoX , both setup can be pretty different. before you do it to your car , i have to tell you aggressive camber and toe setting will cost you more tire wear , so if your budget is low and daily drive over 100km , than you better think twice before you did this to your car .
to do these adjustment , i heard this could be DIY , but i don't know how .or just like me , go to wheel shop which can do four wheel alightment(laser scan, cost around 200dhs each time) .most the time , we can't expect setup it once for all(if there is a suggest number somewhere , better start from there) , cause it is hard to find the compromise between straight line , high speed and low speed corner also braking ability(samlp : some serious toe out or negative camber , will side affect braking straight line ability) .
continue.....
first of all , to do this change and fine tune your suspension doesn't gain you a sec lap time directy , but sometime the right setting match the right driver will gain you more than a sec per lap . there isn't any 100% correct set up , it's depend on the driver , also depend on the course , like for stragiht line drag race , high speed circuit race or like me target on the low speed autoX , both setup can be pretty different. before you do it to your car , i have to tell you aggressive camber and toe setting will cost you more tire wear , so if your budget is low and daily drive over 100km , than you better think twice before you did this to your car .
to do these adjustment , i heard this could be DIY , but i don't know how .or just like me , go to wheel shop which can do four wheel alightment(laser scan, cost around 200dhs each time) .most the time , we can't expect setup it once for all(if there is a suggest number somewhere , better start from there) , cause it is hard to find the compromise between straight line , high speed and low speed corner also braking ability(samlp : some serious toe out or negative camber , will side affect braking straight line ability) .
continue.....
sorry dude , i was try to type some sample what i did to my car !! but the internet is slow and break down everytime , and i loss my long post twice !!
if anyone have more question about this , may be we can talk when we meet , i try my best to help !!
if anyone have more question about this , may be we can talk when we meet , i try my best to help !!
- prossett
- UB Advanced Member
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- Joined:21 Oct 2007, 1:09 pm
- Vehicle:Honda Jazz
- Location:Al Ain
I hate it when that happens!!!
Very informative, kingkenny - don't stop now! I'm definitely DIY so how does that work, you know, without the 200 each time. I think it'll be good to do the pro alignment once, to get a starting point after changing suspension from stock, but then minor 'tests' I want to be able to do myself...
Very informative, kingkenny - don't stop now! I'm definitely DIY so how does that work, you know, without the 200 each time. I think it'll be good to do the pro alignment once, to get a starting point after changing suspension from stock, but then minor 'tests' I want to be able to do myself...
- stone-head
- UB Senior Member
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- Location:AUH
very informative kenny , thanks
I did my home work too & found these couple pics , they say it all
manually aligning wheels can be done using -old fashion - strings & pendulum or this SARD product
https://www.rhdjapan.com/jdm/SARD-Laser ... auge-25286
mostly toe in & out depends on suspension arms & bushings , if bushings are soft then during
hard drive , cornering & braking will change their geometry , but u can adjust their geometry only
while car is stand-still , so take it a couple of laps & see if it needs toe in or out & so forth .
thanks kenny I really didn't know these info .
ohh one more thing it even depends if steering rods are connected in front of the wheel hub or
back of wheel hub , so it's all about trial & error & driver feel
I did my home work too & found these couple pics , they say it all
manually aligning wheels can be done using -old fashion - strings & pendulum or this SARD product
https://www.rhdjapan.com/jdm/SARD-Laser ... auge-25286
mostly toe in & out depends on suspension arms & bushings , if bushings are soft then during
hard drive , cornering & braking will change their geometry , but u can adjust their geometry only
while car is stand-still , so take it a couple of laps & see if it needs toe in or out & so forth .
thanks kenny I really didn't know these info .
ohh one more thing it even depends if steering rods are connected in front of the wheel hub or
back of wheel hub , so it's all about trial & error & driver feel
- prossett
- UB Advanced Member
- Posts:1055
- Joined:21 Oct 2007, 1:09 pm
- Vehicle:Honda Jazz
- Location:Al Ain
OK, here's my understanding so far... and in expressing it maybe it will help others and also maybe you guys can point out misunderstandings.
Jazz has a MacPherson Strut front suspension, which is basically a bottom wishbone with the shock/spring attaching to the top of the uni-body chassis.
Looks like this:
Source: http://www.autozine.org/technical_school/
So, if I lower my darling Jazz, with a new coilover or just shortened springs, this is what would happen:
The shock/spring gets shorter, and the bottom wishbone angle goes up. So the wheel camber is now negative (with the bottom part of the wheel sticking out) - like this:
Source: http://www.wikipedia.org
So, to tune the suspension back to stock handling, I would need to move the wishbone in towards the chassis.
Source: http://www.autozine.org/technical_school/
I suppose there are bolts that you loosen where the wishbone attaches to the chassis, and probably also some room to slide that puppy in a few mm.
Now, the rear.
Jazz has a torsion-beam rear suspension, which is a weird one for me - never seen it before. Apparently, there's a metal bar which connects the two wheels and which flexes up and down. It's like a long wishbone joined to the bottom parts of both wheels. Then the shock/spring combo attaches at the top to the uni-body chassis.
Something like this:
Source: http://www.autozine.org/technical_school/
So, that seems to be really good news for lowering, because the bottom part of the torsion-beam suspension runs along the chassis, not towards the centre of the car, and so camber should remain exactly the same when lowered.
As the spring/shock gets shorter, the entire arm moves up, getting tighter (more torque) so I suppose I could loosen where the torsion bar connects to the chassis to return to stock balance - see pic, the arrow points to where the bolt would be.
Source: http://www.autozine.org/technical_school/
Sounds about right to you guys?
Jazz has a MacPherson Strut front suspension, which is basically a bottom wishbone with the shock/spring attaching to the top of the uni-body chassis.
Looks like this:
Source: http://www.autozine.org/technical_school/
So, if I lower my darling Jazz, with a new coilover or just shortened springs, this is what would happen:
The shock/spring gets shorter, and the bottom wishbone angle goes up. So the wheel camber is now negative (with the bottom part of the wheel sticking out) - like this:
Source: http://www.wikipedia.org
So, to tune the suspension back to stock handling, I would need to move the wishbone in towards the chassis.
Source: http://www.autozine.org/technical_school/
I suppose there are bolts that you loosen where the wishbone attaches to the chassis, and probably also some room to slide that puppy in a few mm.
Now, the rear.
Jazz has a torsion-beam rear suspension, which is a weird one for me - never seen it before. Apparently, there's a metal bar which connects the two wheels and which flexes up and down. It's like a long wishbone joined to the bottom parts of both wheels. Then the shock/spring combo attaches at the top to the uni-body chassis.
Something like this:
Source: http://www.autozine.org/technical_school/
So, that seems to be really good news for lowering, because the bottom part of the torsion-beam suspension runs along the chassis, not towards the centre of the car, and so camber should remain exactly the same when lowered.
As the spring/shock gets shorter, the entire arm moves up, getting tighter (more torque) so I suppose I could loosen where the torsion bar connects to the chassis to return to stock balance - see pic, the arrow points to where the bolt would be.
Source: http://www.autozine.org/technical_school/
Sounds about right to you guys?
i don't know much about DIY , but i watched how the pro-track racer set up their car on the track after every lap , i like to learn it too .
nice find ! let me contiune my resach , and see if i could find something !!
nice find ! let me contiune my resach , and see if i could find something !!
- grayfox666
- UB Advanced Member
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- Location:Sharjah
Does anyone know who is the distributor for KW Coilovers in UAE?
- grayfox666
- UB Advanced Member
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- Joined:07 Jan 2006, 2:55 pm
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- Location:Sharjah
I did man. If you can find me KW V3 Race Spec Coilovers online for 6N2 that ship intnl, ill buy you a beer . I thought not to have headache and see if they have it locally.
- grayfox666
- UB Advanced Member
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- Joined:07 Jan 2006, 2:55 pm
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Tnx guys. but i need help with finding it locally.